Ok, here's my point: We have the Ass-sordid Demos CD's, we have the official bootleg, we have Devlab and Project EKO. In short: Aside from the very official releases, there are things of the more obscure kind in our Devin Townsend-collections.

These releases are only sold through the HDR site and in limited editions, since Devin doesn't seem to want them spread to the casual fan (if there is such a fan). BUT, as at least some of us know, all these releases have found their way into the filesharing community and can be downloaded via the P2P program of your choice. I see this as a possible problem:

Firstly, this unintended spread of material not necessarily representative of how Devin presents himself officialy (AE, Terria, Infinity...) can prove damaging to his career, since people might be "scared off" after DL'ing Devlab, for instance.

Secondly, this same spread to "the public" can scare Devin off from releasing stuff like that, thus taking away the possibility for us to take part of certain aspects of his creative genious.

So I've come up with a suggestion: To make sure that the stuff Devin doesn't want spread to "the public" stays off limits (i.e. stays of P2P), and that he doesn't have to worry about stuff being "unreleasable" - why not create a channel where you can guarantee that only "fans" will get hold of this stuff?
What I have in mind is that we don't just pay for the finished product, but actually pay to have it made. I'm thinking in the lines of us subscribing to some sort of "For Fans Only"-CD's that could come out maybe once or twice a year. On these albums we could have demos and rehearsals, alternate mixes, experiments, bootlegs, perhaps a media section with photos and videos, messages from Devin and the boys, maybe some sort of diary to let us take part of the work "behind the scenes"... Anything that Devin would feel like putting on a CD, actually!

I believe there is a core of fans that are genuinely interested in taking part of the "unreleasable" side of Devin Townsend, that are actually ready to pay for anything he wishes to share with us, and who would listen or view it with open minds.

"But why not just put the stuff up on a passworded site for anyone interested to download?" No, it's too easy. Anyone could do that, and it wouldn't stay within the fan-community. Hell, not even all of us here can be considered fans! No,by adding a cost to it, we sort out most of the people not interested in "the wierd stuff" and also create a sense of responsibility. For example, I don't rip CD's I've bought so other people can DL them...

Now you've heard my suggestion. I think it's a good idea. I'm ignorant enough to think that you all think it's a good idea. Now all we need to know is if Devin thinks it's a good idea...

I don't like this idea at all.

Even though I kind of like the idea, I think such a thing would take up too much of Devs already tight schedule.

I think you're overestimating the 'damage' done by p2p networks. First off people getting into dev arnt going to download something labeled 'demo' as they know it wont be quality (although with processinal being labeled a demo methinks mabye they should) also devlab has no track names so again chances are people who dont know about it will stay away from it. Also project EKO was a publicly released thing. While I would like a whole heap of stuff like demos and alternate mixes and stuff these would also in the same way make it onto P2P networks. Making it all pointless. Good idea..... mabye but it doesnt acually make a real difference

[Blazingmonga]

This is a good idea in itself, but I am not sure of the use of it.

Well, what I mean is that the situation you describe is the situation we already have. I believe that this was a major factor in Devin starting his own record label.

The reason that albums such as Devlab, AS1, AS2 (and the press CD too I suppose) were released was (I believe) for the fans that are as you describe, the ones who don't worry about the quality of the material before they buy it, the curious ones.

From what I have heard and read, this is the situation that Devin wanted. The release of Devlab (how much more un-releasable a release is THAT?!! Ha!) was successful enough on the website. Devlab was never meant to be sold outside of the website.

So the idea you describe is already in effect. The last issue of the newsletter has this to say from Devin:

Hey everyone! The music is coming strong & sure. The new DTB is like a cold drink of water right now! I hope you enjoy the Alien for what she is......and there's more (*gasp*) ambient stuff in the future too! (web only deal...) - Devin

and also:

The response to DevLab was truly phenomenal and surprising. While there were some people who didnt get it at all, most were open minded and appreciated the subtleties and attention that went into it, others absolutely loved it. Doing little projects like that makes him happy and he would explode if he didnt follow the muse were it leads. He doesnt want to sensor himself for the sake of offending somebody or violating some imaginary genre line. We will continue to release website-only projects like that if only for the reason that he likes to make little projects and share them.

So you see, I dont think we have to worry...

Yea, i dont think their is a problem. And i didnt find Devlab too accesible to try and sample. But i bought the cd anyway and fucking love it.

Music is music man, their are some people that mainly listen to ambient shit like that and probably would have liked to see it released in stores, or somewhere where they could have found out about it. Not only Dev fans will like Devlab, their is definitely fans of the music genre that would love it if it was more accesible to them.

i couldn't find devlab on any p2p programs and only found Project EKO when it was on my soulseek wishlist for like 3 weeks ~_~... i don't think the casual sampler of devins music would stumble upon them by accident.

Dammit! You were supposed to like the idea!!!

But you all make good points, and I guess I got a little carried away. Well, well. That's what these boards are for, anyways, so...

Ah! But I still like te idea of subscribing to it. That way I can relax and just have these babies delivered as they're released...

I do like the idea, but I wonder if the poor buggers will have enough time to devote the required efforts towards it.
They seem up to their nostrils in everyday activity as it is...

Hmm, perhaps they need some "hired help".

*waves hand in air frantically*

Ah! But I still like te idea of subscribing to it. That way I can relax and just have these babies delivered as they're released... Cool

i must say i like that idea ^^

I think having semi-official stuff available through the website only is sufficient. I don't like the idea of having releases being made for some "superfans" (heh...) only. Firstly, it's got too much of an arrogant, elitist ring to it, and secondly, eventually those would end up on Ebay for ridiculous prices anyway (see what happened to the Official Bootleg while it was sold out and hadn't been rereleased yet).

I agree with just having those sort of things available just through the website and no where else. Let Dev decide what he really wants released and what he doesn't.. don't bribe him with extra money hehe

I don't like the idea.

But on the issue of this not releasing something so as not to let it get into the general public......that's stupid. If Devin just wants to release something on the site, then that's great, but there shouldn't be anything that's intentionally held back, as you're suggesting. Just look at John Zorn, he doesn't care. It's music, it should be available some how.

I doubt there are really many "casual" Devin Townsend and the like fans anyway. Strictly for music lovers.

I think it's a quality control issue. I see great value in allowing artists to choose what they release rather tha feel obligated to put out everything they record. What material is issued to the general public is what creates the image of who or what an artist is.

Imagine if Devin released Devlab to the general public... I imagine he would have lost a lot of fans and credability over that one. Now personally I love it and treasure it as one of my favourite Devin releases, but the silly metal loving public might not have viewed it in that manner. Just check out how extreme some of the reactions from devin hardcore fans are in the thread for that album!

Artists like Tool, Nine Inch Nails, Bjork, Muse, Massive Attack etc etc don't put much out at all. They do this because they don't want to release substandard stuff, they want every release to reflect their very best. That way, when you think of that artist, you are not hindered by imagining subpar rehearsal stuff or demos or nasty b sides... You only remember the great stuff.

I think that we should allow Devin to release whatever he sees fit for public consumption and leave it at that. I'm just grateful that he has chosen to give us his smaller projects in the format in which he has given them to us. I can't, however, see any artist releasing rehearsal footage or audio... That is showing any band at their weakest point, and I don't think any artist would be cool with that.

Well said Greg, I think anyone in a band can relate to this.