I have to say something here...

Today I decided to listen to Devlab, to lay on my bed, zone out and take it all in. Granted, it was a very relaxing experiance. My favorite parts being the quesadilla part, (Such awesome techno) and the part where there are these twinkling notes in the background of a beautiful dark atmosphere. I have just gotten together with a lovely woman, and I imagined during this part of laying in the grass under a beautiful display of night. The album is quite charming, a bit disturbing at times, and the dark night atmosphere of it gives me chills. I can't wait for its opposite Human to come out. Its going to be amazing!

Anyway, as I was listening to it I couldn't help but think and frustrate myself with the question, "Why the hell isn't Dev regarded as one of the most original and creative artists of the modern day?!" I'm serious, it frustrates me to know that his music will never be accepted on a larger scale. Every single one of his albums are something special, something different, like stepping into different worlds. Even Physicist and SYL which are regarded as his two weakest albums are so much more above much of the music that is being regarded as "good" today. His production work is fabulous too, he can make an ordinary hardcore band sound like something powerful and artistic. It completely boggles my mind on how underrated he is in entertainment. His voice, his music, his vision, he is one of the most intresting people in music by far. I'm not saying this because I'm a fanboy, I'm saying it cause in my eyes and my ears its the truth. And it is such a shame that people, even people that I know will never understand his music. Its not like his music is too complex, or too difficult, thats what I love about him. His work is a pleasure because its easy to listen to without sacrifising any of its emotion or intricacy. Its just people are either too lazy or don't feel like giving something new a chance. Sigh....

But thats the way it goes I guess. As long as the few who are here and the few that are in the world continue to support him, I'm sure he will go on. He seems much to devoted to ever stop...and that gives me great comfort...really.

Sorry if that was long, I just needed to vent for a minute.

[djskrimp]

1) You're preaching to the choir, brother. We all feel the same frustrations you do, in our own ways.

2) I don't think he's quite as "underappreciated" as you might be believe. What do I mean? Look how many artists list Dev and his projects as inspirations or influences. Look how many great bands he's produced/sang/played an instrument for. Plus, and I think you'll agree, his fans are a lot more steadfast and loyal. Even those of us who may dislike a certain album wait with bated breath for the next endeavour, because we KNOW it'll change the rules, even if it isn't our "new favorite".

3) If you want to show apprecation..buy the mans' stuff, keep sending words of encouragement (like this), and try to get your smarter friends to check out all that is Dev...you may convert a few. I say smarter, because those without open and forward-thinking minds tend to dismiss the music of Dev. Ah...so be it. It there for me to love.

Talky-talky....I stop now

You should just feel good in knowing that you're probably a more advanced listener than most. Fact is, most people these days don't have the listening skills to appreciate such abstract, cerebral music. We live in a low attention span, fast food consumer, quick fix generation. Most people have pretty unadvanced listening skills and can only appreciate 3-4 minute pop songs. So don't feel too bad. It's just the way it is.

It's Promotion too man, if there was some way to get this stuff played on the radio more, It would probably be alot bigger than it is. Not huge, but it would certainly sell better than it is now. I personally think if "Life" got a little exposure it would of been a pretty big hit.

Life? sure its radio-ish, but Thing Beyond Things to me sounds easily the most radio-ish from OM.

but anyway, the biggest connection between me and most of my closer friends is music, we all met in music class in high school and formed a band, it disbanded and joined with another then half disbanded again, and most of those people are passionate about music, so they know music as well, and recognise talented musicians/bands.

i have a few others who have SYL discs but they arent obsessed with music so to speak so they dont really take an interest in how popular or talented an artist is.

sure itd be great if more people actually could see how amazing Dev is, but the bottom line is, you and we do and we get to listen to him all the time, and thats good enough for me

Things Beyond Things is far too well thought out and emotional to fit on radio And Life too for that matter.

Unfortunately, with the way things are there will always be an underappreciation for Devin's music. I dont see Devin producing too many 3 hit catchy radio ballads, and if he started to aim to do that it would be extremely inhibiting creatively, and we wouldnt have had such wonders as Ocean Machine, Terria or Infinity bestowed upon us.

Its a shame too because I've introduced Devin's music to about 3 people and theyve all said that its great.

The great thing about Devin is that in almost everything he does, there are beautiful and/or catchy melodies. In the solo stuff it's pretty obvious, but these "hints of pop" are everywhere. Listen to "Force Fed" or "Skeksis" and it's there (just not all the time), as in at least 95% of all SYL-songs.

But to the casual listener, these strengths get swallowed by the richness of the music. There's so much going on there that you have to listen to be able to appreciate it. And we all know that the average schmuck isn't really interested in listening to music - he/she just uses it as background noise. And good background noise doesn't force you to listen...

"Why the hell isn't Dev regarded as one of the most original and creative artists of the modern day?!"

Because as a rule, music which is original and creative is completely ignored by the music industry. People do not want original and creative, they do not like to be challenged musically, if it doesn't sound very close to their existing tastes, the bulk of music listeners/buyers are generally not interested.

I also think that a lot of people have an initial problem hearing exactly what makes Dev and bands like Meshuggah so intelligent and interesting to start with, and a lot of people take a while, and lots of listening to get to that stage....that's just from my experiences of what people say if I recommend those two to them

devlab should NEVER be underrated... its awesome and very creative. i've just recently heard it, and its amazing!!

[Blazingmonga]

You should just feel good in knowing that you're probably a more advanced listener than most. Fact is, most people these days don't have the listening skills to appreciate such abstract, cerebral music.

No disrespect at all, but I have to say that I dont agree with this statement at all. I don't think there is such a thing as 'skill' involved when it comes to being a fan of music. Just because somebody listens to a different kind of music does not mean that they are less advanced. It all boils down to what you want to get out of music and what you find in it that can make you happy.

In the same way that I dont think Devin is underappreciated. I mean, he may not be famous, but his fanbase is second to none in terms of appreciation. We have seen this here countless times. It just so happens that all the people who are the biggest fans have come here to form this community. We are not more advanced because of it, its just that we all get something out of this music and have a place to talk about it. This is not a 'centre of intelligence', it is a community.

It would be great if Devin's music sold more, of course, but it is more important that even a small number of people are getting something immensely wonderful out of it. Better that than a large number of people getting little out of it. I like to think that even if there is not quite so many of us, that we have a good relationship with 'The Dev' and have a lot of respect for what he does, mutual respect.

Anyway, that was a load of nonsense. Bottom line:

Dev ISNT underappreciated, he IS underlistened to....or something.

No disrespect at all, but I have to say that I dont agree with this statement at all. I don't think there is such a thing as 'skill' involved when it comes to being a fan of music. Just because somebody listens to a different kind of music does not mean that they are less advanced. It all boils down to what you want to get out of music and what you find in it that can make you happy.

Well, I think you're wrong. It's like when you're a kid, you start off enjoying the most simple music, nursery rhymes etc... cause your brain ain't developed enough to appreciate more complex sounds. Over time as you get older and more mentally developed you'll start to like stuff that's more and more sonically complex. How far that goes depends on how far your listening skills develop.

Take jazz. There's a certain appreciation of complex sounds and subtleties than one must have to "Get" jazz. You think a 5 year old is going to find Allan Holdsworth enjoyable music? No. But over time depending on alot of factors, including his environment, he may develop the sense to enjoy the complex sounds someone like Holdsworth creates. Most people never develop the listening skills to appreciate such music. Music doesn't hit everyones ears the same way.

I'm not saying this cause I'm arrogant or something. I'm saying it cause it's the truth. Hell, I don't even have the attention span to appreciate alot of jazz or classical.

[Blazingmonga]

Ok, ok, what you say there is true. Yes, a child will not be too keen on the subtleties of Devin's music.

What I meant was that just because you enjoy Devin's music, it doesnt make you more intelligent than somebody who doesnt enjoy it. What it does mean is that there is something in that music that strikes a chord with you (nice pun, see) and that you can relate to. The people who have heard Devin's music but don't like MIGHT be idiots and MAY not listen properly to it, or give it a fair chance...but its quite possible that it just doesnt have the same effect on them that it does with us, simply because of who this person is.

Catch my drift here?

The same thing that makes this music special to us is what can make it un-special to other people. It doesnt mean they are stupid, just that they have their ears tuned for something else.

I feel very privileged to get the enjoyment out of Dev's music that I do. And I for one am glad the way things are the way they are. It's just not meant to be that more people discover Dev's wonderful pallete of diverse music. We are the ones that hear it and appreciate it. And if more people come on board thats great. But for now I will take being a member of a small but devoted community to this great man. If he keeps on making music I am happy.

Ok, ok, what you say there is true. Yes, a child will not be too keen on the subtleties of Devin's music.

What I meant was that just because you enjoy Devin's music, it doesnt make you more intelligent than somebody who doesnt enjoy it. What it does mean is that there is something in that music that strikes a chord with you (nice pun, see) and that you can relate to. The people who have heard Devin's music but don't like MIGHT be idiots and MAY not listen properly to it, or give it a fair chance...but its quite possible that it just doesnt have the same effect on them that it does with us, simply because of who this person is.

Catch my drift here?

The same thing that makes this music special to us is what can make it un-special to other people. It doesnt mean they are stupid, just that they have their ears tuned for something else.

Yeah, I know what your saying. But generally speaking I think more intelligent people tend to gravitate to more complex forms of music. Doesn't mean you have to be Einstein to appreciate Devin's music or something. If it strikes a chord it strikes a chord, right.

Ok, ok, what you say there is true. Yes, a child will not be too keen on the subtleties of Devin's music.

What I meant was that just because you enjoy Devin's music, it doesnt make you more intelligent than somebody who doesnt enjoy it. What it does mean is that there is something in that music that strikes a chord with you (nice pun, see) and that you can relate to. The people who have heard Devin's music but don't like MIGHT be idiots and MAY not listen properly to it, or give it a fair chance...but its quite possible that it just doesnt have the same effect on them that it does with us, simply because of who this person is.

Catch my drift here?

The same thing that makes this music special to us is what can make it un-special to other people. It doesnt mean they are stupid, just that they have their ears tuned for something else.

Yeah, I know what your saying. But generally speaking I think more intelligent people tend to gravitate to more complex forms of music. Doesn't mean you have to be Einstein to appreciate Devin's music or something. If it strikes a chord it strikes a chord, right.

Actually, you are both wrong and both right. There is a theory that intelligence is not easily quantified and that people actual possess multiple intelligences. Intelligence is therefore split up into different kinds. Like, for example, there is mechanical intelligence, physical intelligence, mathematical intelligence, linguistic intelligence, etc.
http://www.ed.psu.edu/insys/ESD/gardner/MItheory.html While Gardner has only suggested the 7 intelligences listed at the site above, other psychologists have theorized that there might be other intelligences, as well, such as musical intelligence.

That is to say, it's possible that there are very smart people out there that are not musically intelligent, though they may be highly intelligent in other areas. Maybe people with very high musical intelligence truly appreciate Devin's music but people that don't have a high musical intelligence just can't quite "get it." And, maybe this intelligence is developed over time so that if you spend a lot of time listening to music, you get more "musically intelligent." The intelligence to appreciate music is, incidentally, not the same as the intelligence to play it. Though, I'm sure they are related. I think to be a musician you have to have high musical intelligence, plus high kinesthetic intelligence and it probably helps to throw in some mathematical intelligence.

Hope that makes sense.

Interesting discussion. This is my take on it:

I doubt the existence of "listening skills" or "advanced listeners". Yes, learning about jazz or classical music might enhance the experience, as will learning about "metal" in general - or Devin in particular - before listening to DTB or SYL. But that doesn't stop anyone from falling in love with it on first listen - even if that person has never listened to that kind of music before.
Actually, it doesn't really matter how advanced you are as a listener - if you don't like jazz, you don't like it. For example, I've tried explaining SYL to my wife, but no success. She still hates it. And for the sake of argument, I could easily consider her an "advanced listener" with high "listening skills" - the thing is, she's not interested in that type of music. It doesn't speak to her. She would probably agree with me about how well executed the playing is, and how good the production is - but she cannot for her life understand what's so damn good about it.

Music has to speak to you. Otherwise it's of no use. And just because Devin speaks to us, it's no guarantee that he speaks to the rest of the world. Devin might be underrated by some, overrated by some - but most people don't care. And that's their loss - not our problem.

Overall, I don't think that intelligence and musical preferences has anything to do with each other. There's more to this than that...