Shouldn't people be proud of their history?

Why should I be proud of something I didn't have any influence in? At all? Should I really be proud of my country's history, especially the era from Bismarck's retirement up to the end of World War II? Should I be proud of my Nazi grandfather? Proud of Verdun? Guernica? Coventry, Warschau and Auschwitz?

Or at least proud of the more positive aspects of my country's history; our constitution or the german "economic miracle" in the 60ies? I was born in 1972 and I didn't influence anything back then. And although I'm a social democrat, I'm not proud of "my" ex-chancellor Schröder's decision not to join the "coalition of the willing" to envade Iraq. It was a good decision, but it was his decision, not mine - and he made plenty of bad decisions, too.

What am I then? I'm happy to be born in a stable, wealthy and relatively open and relatively peaceful (specially considering our past) western society. And I love my country. But I'm not "proud" to be a german "national subject".

Anyway, to quote Grip Inc.'s Gus Chambers: "All blood runs red."

pride can be felt on external factors. If you had a son and he won a competition,wouldn't you be proud of him? yes, you would, even though you might not have direct action/effect relation on his winnings. So i see no problem in people being proud of some person that shares some characteristic they relate to.

Each person gets proud about something for a personal reason, that SHOULD be chosen solely by that person, but sometimes is imposed by society and not thought about. Pride isn't always a bad thing, it could be in a lot of ways, an inspiration for the continuation of those good deeds that were made to cause pride in others.

Am i proud of other people's acts? sometimes, yes, but only general humane acts, i'm proud of sharing the same human genepool as many many people for some of their deeds. Why? Because it inspires me somehow.

Pride is pretty much just another psycho-sociological "tool" inherent to human behaviour. So if it's badly used, it's bad, but it can also be used for good.

Yeah, I know that. But it's in the past. Racism is dumb and if it's going to be weeded out of society, it has to start with forgetting about the past.

What? If it's going to be weeded out of society, it has to start with learning from the mistakes people made in the past. You can't learn anything from things you forget. Especially when you do it intentionally, which makes it an act of surpressing the past. I'm from Germany, so I'm really not that unfamiliar with that topic. Sometimes I get sick of people always basing their decisions on things that happened over sixty years ago, maybe even decades before they were born. BUT totally forgetting of what happened in the past and completely not using it as an admonishing reminder would be a mistake as well, don't you think?


I hope this doesn't sound too rude... I really need to have breakfast. NOW.

If you had a son and he won a competition, wouldn't you be proud of him?

Of course - but that's something completely different IMO, because I have a direct effect on my son's personality development. I can be proud of every postitive effect I can achieve in my direct environment, nothing more, nothing less.

Because white people have no reason to be offended when someone calls them a cracker or a honkey. We were never enslaved, never made to sit on the back of the bus or to attend separate schools. You'll notice that there aren't many ghettos filled with impoverished white people in the States. There is no history of racism against white people; therefore, racist comments against white people have no weight.

Yeah, I know that. But it's in the past. Racism is dumb and if it's going to be weeded out of society, it has to start with forgetting about the past.

And if he was just trying to piss the guy off, why did he not realize that his comments would piss off every other black person in the crowd, and many of the white people too? And why did he need to remind the guy that 50 years ago, he might be swinging from a tree for heckling a white man?

Yeah, but he obviously wasn't thinking. It was a dumb thing to do but I'm sure everyone has lost their cool at some point and said something they really really regret. I am not saying what he did was okay, but I personally think it's something that can and should be forgiven. Likely though, this has just fucked up his career and you'd hate to see that.

If anything, it just proves that he's a lousy comic. He wasn't able to come up with an original, funny comeback to the heckling, so he attacked the guy on the meanest, most basic level, while insulting black people at large.

In fairness to him, I don't think he was trying to be funny. He seemed pretty pissed off at the time the video picked up.

It's also interesting to see how many people are trying to downplay the whole thing...

Because things like this are always blown out of proportion. It's not like he killed a man... No, he lost his temper and started attacking a guy verbally. He might as well have killed someone, at least then his career wouldn't be fucked.

I feel sorry for the guy.

Jesus, it's not like he just "let one slip" in the heat of the moment. He went on and on about it. I personally think he was on drugs and that had something to do with it.

As for the history of oppression against blacks being "in the past"...sure it is, but if you are saying that we should forget it because it has no impact on modern-day society, I'm afraid you are being quite ignorant. It's like the way natives are treated in Canada. Everyone knows about the subtance abuse, the unemployment, the domestic violence...and every just thinks it's their nature, and has nothing to do with the history of oppression at the hands of the Canadian government. Such oppression is hard to bounce back from, as a people and a culture. In many parts of the USA (and elsewhere), I'm sure people would love to go back to the days of slavery if they could. Clearly this is not just a thing of the past, when you've got people like Michael Richards bringing it up at a comedy club in 2006.

Hard to feel sorry for a guy who screwed up that badly...though I would like to see what that guy said to him to provoke such behavior...

nigger acctually is supposed to mean a dumb person but black people associate it with a bad name for them because thats what the whites used to call them alot during their times of slavery. i find it stupid that they continue to use that word with each other, yet get so offended at it.

anyway yeah if you didnt know michael richards is a dick and im not surprised with this. watch or listen to some interviews. he can be very rude.

http://metalheadsagainstracism.org/indexe.html

I'm not sure if this website serves much of a purpose like donate money to charities or anything, but it'll put your name on the webpage stating you're against racism.

Racism is a nasty thing, in my opinion it can ruin the character or personality of a person, but it's not just whites hating blacks. It's every ethnicity against another.

[JuZ]

Agreed, WB. I've never been on the receiving end of years of systematic hatred/abuse/bigotry and, as a relatively young white male, it would be SO wrong of me to tell anyone who had been through it to get over it, forget it, or move on.

The fact that some black people call themselves or others "nigger" does not mean that every black person does so, or condones such behaviour. In fact, many young black men have been lectured pretty severely by others in the black community for doing so. And that's an issue that is entirely for them to resolve for themselves.

Nor does it justify any form of bigotry. From anyone. It's wrong, it's divisive, it's hateful, and it's pretty boring.

Equally, a gay man calling himself a fag does not give me the right to call him a fag (particularly in the hateful, angry manner of Richards).

We should have moved on from this sort of juvenile garbage years ago, bad moods, lost tempers or otherwise.

We should have moved on from this sort of juvenile garbage years ago, bad moods, lost tempers or otherwise.

Yeah in all honesty everyone has some self control. I was offended at that. It's not targetted at me, so why should I be offended? It's because I know how it offends others. This is the way people should think, unfortunately they don't.

[JuZ]

BTW, I was blind drunk when I wrote that last night and I'm stunned to see that I actually made some kind of sense!

Just watched a clip of him on Letterman "apologising" and he started talking about Iraq! He clearly doesn't get it. Ah well.

He definitely has to work on the sincerity routine. He's still overdoing it, which tells him off. Symptomatic stuff. I don't like how Seinfeld is pleased with his apology performance either.

Richards - in my opinion - should state this:

"I reflected what I said and I figured it out: fuck me, I'm a racist. But I'm not comfortable with it. I dont want this kind of shit coming out from me, because all it's saying is I'm a shitty person unable to deal with my own insecurity, so I construct my false sense of superiority through insulting bullshit."

Then I'd buy his sentence "I have to work on myself." Otherwise, he's just trying to cover the damage in a rather pathetic fashion.

i think the context makes the difference, like if someone says "hey my nigger" or "i'm a nigger" then thats fair cause no-one means it to be hurtful. but he says it with VENOM he means it to hurt, to insult and to provoke an upset and shocked reaction. he did it because he was angry and meant it as an insult not a description.

It is called reclaiming a word. some parts of the Black community use Nigger, and various other ethnic slurs in a dismissive way, because that has the effect of de-powering the word. The same with the use of Fag etc in the Gay community. These are words that have been use to insult an entire race, or community, for many many years, if people use them in such an offhand way, it takes away the meaning that word would once have had.

However, if someone then shouts that word at you, using it in its original manner, the power comes back.

It is not the word, but the intentions behind the word. If I called my girlfriend a silly kvnt, in a jokey manner she would laugh it off. However, if in the hight of an argument I were to call her a kvnt, she would be massively offended.

Damn you to the board filter which made me spell kvnt in the kvlt way, but was fine with me typing bother nigger and fag. Very odd.

[JuZ]

Stupid phvcking kvnt of a filter. Must have been designed by a nominated ethnic group that I have been brought up to despise and to degrade at any opportunity. It's part of plot to bring down my race/gender/religion. Bunch of kvnts, the lot of them. They've been out to get us since 17-diggetty-3.

Stupid phvcking kvnt of a filter. Must have been designed by a nominated ethnic group that I have been brought up to despise and to degrade at any opportunity. It's part of plot to bring down my race/gender/religion. Bunch of kvnts, the lot of them. They've been out to get us since 17-diggetty-3.

erm, OK then

Drunk again?