This is almost entirely confirmed by my 11 year old brother, who has bands he loves (namely the Aquabats)

Haha, I saw them once in my teens, awesome fun!

these darn whippersnappers...why, when I was a boy, we had to walk to school...uphill!!...both ways !

um, yeah.

As long as it's heard, I'm stoked.

Ziltoid TV is the future!

I loved the old days, though. When I was a kid my parents would give me lunch money for school, but I'd just stash it away and mooch food from my friends. Both of my parents worked, so when I had enough money saved I'd ditch school, go down to the record store and buy a new album or two, then go home and just play them over and over again. I'd sit there with the stereo as loud as I could stand and the album cover in my hands just studying the artwork, the lyrics, and shit, even the credits. My friends would give me shit because I could tell them who mixed what album, who produced it, where it was recorded, who wrote what, who did the cover art/photography, who they thanked, etc.

The sense of pride one feels holding those albums, and the reverence one felt for them is a feeling that so many kids today will never know for themselves. I still feel that way when I get a new CD, and I feel the same way about books.

A kid could read this post, and they just wouldn't get it, because it is just something they have never had the opportunity to feel. It's something that can't be explained. Everything from the anticipation, the purchase, and then that first listen with the album cover in your hands is just a thousand times more special than any download could ever be. I'm glad I grew up in the 70's and 80's just for those experiences alone.

I'm only 26, but share this feeling verbatim. However, I buy much more vinyl now than I do CDs. I do recall a time when I would listen to the radio or watch MTV/VH1, eagerly awaiting the time they'd play my favorite songs. I couldn't just download them or go on YouTube, so they were special. Same with a CD. I could get an album out of my parents every once in awhile, and when I did, I got to learn every nuance of every track and appreciate every song on the album. Downloading kills this experience for the new generation, and thus, a lot of music will be disposable--there is just too much available at any time we want...for free.

This is now an antiquated view.

I checked out the new Ulver album. They are my second favourite band after Dev.

I was very surprised that I didn't like the new album. I'm still going to buy the disk though. Why? out of respect for the band.

I'm sure this is a strange idea to some people.

Even though I'm only 21, I think I can relate a bit as well. From age 6-12 I was into stuff like Spice Girls, Aqua, Britney, Vengaboys... you name it. Downloading wasn't really an option, and I didn't have much money. So on a rare occasion I bought a CD or got one for birthday and one for christmas, or perhaps bought a cd I wanted for my sister, because then my mum would pay for it. I carried the CDs and my discman everywhere, and the booklets got pretty worn. Looking at MTV and such, hoping that they would play a favorite song was also a big part of the game.

At 13 my taste in music transformed rapidly, and I started to download illegally. Perhaps thanks to my older cousin, who lectured me on the importance of buying music, I kept buying CDs... heck, I bought more music than I had bought my entire life. That way the "Oh joy! A new cd!"-feeling was somewhat intact. Now, buying a cd and listening to it for the first time are two separate experiences... so it's far from the same.

The majority of my friends have the same stance on buying vs downloading music. Those of my friends that don't buy music... it's hard for me to say "well you should you know", 'cause they live on student loans and part-time jobs salaries. I can see why they wouldn't spend money on that. However they are paying customers for Spotify, which is supposed to pay musicians. Not the same as the good old "I just spent my savings on a record", but still...
</rant>

...maybe we should start a new thread for this? ...Considering the topic seems to show up every now and then.

WHEN I WAS YOUR AGE, THIS WAS AAAAALL TREES. I actually had to walk to school uphill through woods...we once encountered a flasher in them once, how we loled.

I think Ziltoid TV will only truly work if we get the weather forecast:

"And later on this evening there will be a north-easterly breeze, maximum temperatures of 23c and a strong chance of BAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLS."

But yeah, this topic just reminded me about legal downloading and why I never do it unless theres no physical copy of the song/album I want. The pros of getting a CD is that you're getting the best quality format; you're trading cash for a thing you can look at, feel (if you're into that kinda thing) and keep as well as listen to. About a year ago, a band called Esoterica brought out an album that I bought at the launch gig for a tenner; a friend of mine downloaded it from iTunes a week before for like 7 quid or something, and didn't seem to get why I wanted to wait and spend more money. As it turns out, there was an IP address hidden in the artwork, which lead the listener to an online riddle, and after solving different ones, they were rewarded with extra tracks. He had just spent money on exactly the same thing you can download for free, I had just spent money on something you really could only get with the real deal. Not saying you should just buy CDs and that's that (come on, I got a 500GB Archos 5 full of tunes, there's not a snowlflake's chance in hell most of that's legal), but buy the CDs of bands you really like! And especially buy Dev's CDs so he can fund his dried fruit habit.

I do recall a time when I would listen to the radio or watch MTV/VH1, eagerly awaiting the time they'd play my favorite songs. I couldn't just download them or go on YouTube, so they were special.

I remember this. First half of the last decade, I would have to sit watching Kerrang waiting for certain songs to crop up. Now I can go to YouTube or Spotify whenever I like and listen to them.

It's a strange difference, but I'm not about to go "Ohhhh waiiiil, kids these dayyyys". Technology changes. Who laments the loss of VHS? They were a key part of the first decade of my life, but so what? I simply buy my favourite films on DVDs now, just as I now listen to MP3s. It doesn't make me some robotic, brainwashed child of the future. I still absorb and appreciate music, I can sit quietly with headphones listening to an album all afternoon - difference is, my headphones are plugged in to a computer.

I do recall a time when I would listen to the radio or watch MTV/VH1, eagerly awaiting the time they'd play my favorite songs. I couldn't just download them or go on YouTube, so they were special.

I remember this. First half of the last decade, I would have to sit watching Kerrang waiting for certain songs to crop up. Now I can go to YouTube or Spotify whenever I like and listen to them.

It's a strange difference, but I'm not about to go "Ohhhh waiiiil, kids these dayyyys". Technology changes. Who laments the loss of VHS? They were a key part of the first decade of my life, but so what? I simply buy my favourite films on DVDs now, just as I now listen to MP3s. It doesn't make me some robotic, brainwashed child of the future. I still absorb and appreciate music, I can sit quietly with headphones listening to an album all afternoon - difference is, my headphones are plugged in to a computer.

The technology change from VHS to DVD to Blu-Ray, etc. isn't the same as the downloading issue. Regardless of the format (took me forever to switch from cassettes), the ability to have everything at out fingertips wasn't there before. I don't think anyone is saying anything against the younger generation. If any of us were young kids now, we'd do the exact same thing. The problem is not knowing the difference. Never again will a new album be as big of a deal as it had been in the past. It used to be that when one person got a new album by a popular band, all of their friends would go to their house to have a listening party, because there was no other way to hear the new music. Now not only does an album release not cause as much buzz that gets people together, the albums are getting leaked weeks or months in advance, then we can all just stay home and hook headphones up to our computers...

As a side note, I think people that take the time to get into artists such as Devin Townsend, Dream Theater, King Crimson, Ayreon, etc. are people that think of music differently than those that will fall into the mindless downloading trap. Downloading lends itself to the desire for instant gratification--with an unlimited list of tracks/artists to choose from, proggy and more complex music may be harder for some to accept. I may be wrong.

As noted, the upside is that downloading allows some people to discover artists they otherwise wouldn't have (myself included), and that can lead to some actual sales, but whether or not that outweighs the negatives seems to be inconclusive. And there are certainly other factors that could be causing lower CD sales than downloading.

One problem I see is that every major CD store around here has closed (places like Best Buy are now as good as it gets [and they didn't have Addicted on release day ]). Most movie rental locations are also gone. Between the two, there have undoubtedly been a lot of lost jobs. Downloading is likely a partial cause for both of these.

So I'm sure looking forward to Ghost 2 guys.

Jumping into the CD discussion... part of the reason a lot of people don't buy anymore (I think) is because they don't get why they even should. As in, they've been raised in a world where music is 'free', for all intents and purposes (you can just download it - what's stopping you?) so when they see someone who actually paid for the music they listen to, they're like 'why would you pay for that when you could have it for free?' Since they were raised in this era, they don't get that, at one time, music was a physical product - something you had to BUY to listen to!

i was referring to friends my age (late 20's). they grew up needing to buy cds, now they're just cheap. but yea i agree with what you were saying for the most part.

these darn whippersnappers...why, when I was a boy, we had to walk to school...uphill!!...both ways !

um, yeah.

As long as it's heard, I'm stoked.

Ziltoid TV is the future!

I loved the old days, though. When I was a kid my parents would give me lunch money for school, but I'd just stash it away and mooch food from my friends. Both of my parents worked, so when I had enough money saved I'd ditch school, go down to the record store and buy a new album or two, then go home and just play them over and over again. I'd sit there with the stereo as loud as I could stand and the album cover in my hands just studying the artwork, the lyrics, and shit, even the credits. My friends would give me shit because I could tell them who mixed what album, who produced it, where it was recorded, who wrote what, who did the cover art/photography, who they thanked, etc.

The sense of pride one feels holding those albums, and the reverence one felt for them is a feeling that so many kids today will never know for themselves. I still feel that way when I get a new CD, and I feel the same way about books.

A kid could read this post, and they just wouldn't get it, because it is just something they have never had the opportunity to feel. It's something that can't be explained. Everything from the anticipation, the purchase, and then that first listen with the album cover in your hands is just a thousand times more special than any download could ever be. I'm glad I grew up in the 70's and 80's just for those experiences alone.

I'm a kid and I do understand what you mean. I used to buy CD's but then my musical taste was limited and I was focused on gettin every Rush album. Even though some of them had come out over 20 years ago, to me it was like the album had only just come out! I love the physical objects and when I get a job, and certainly my own house, I'll probably collect CDs. I know many people with a library of DVDs that cost more than CD's and offer less, in my opinion. So I'm not a film person, I'm a music person, and in the future I'll have a library of music CDs- but right now I have to put up with downloading them. I don't get pocket money or anything so there's not other way.

Oh I am one of those people with a wall of DVDs Got the Hellraiser boxset personally signed by Doug Bradley! He also signed my Candyman DVD despite insisting that he wasn't in it...

To me, there's nothing quite like ripping off the plastic from a brand new CD or DVD....PHWOOOOAR. Can't get that on iTunes or Pirate Bay.

I literally have used up all the space where I store my CDs/DVDs. There are no more subtle place to keep them without converting my walk-in wardrobe into Danny's DVD room in Hot Fuzz.

Between books, cd's and DVD's galore, I keep having to buy shelves for them all, LOL. In my old apartment, we did not have enough room. I'm in a bigger place now! (so I guess I can fill this place up with crap then complain about how we have too much stuff when we move again...)

So I'm sure looking forward to Ghost 2 guys.

Me too.

Know what I'm not looking forward to? A bunch of clueless nits ignoring your comment and continuing with the "DOWNLOAD" discussion, because that's never happened before in the history of the internets. I mean, people never talk about that on message boards. Especially not here - LMFAO.

I feel like quoting each and every one of these posts and responding with "O RLY??? What a profound opinion you have on this unusual matter, I've not heard anyone say anything like that before!" - LMFAO.

That's just how the conversation's going, you don't cattle prod people into what you wanna talk about in real life, do you? The reason people are talking about downloading is purely because Ghost II is kinda in limbo at the moment regarding distribution; and if that wasn't the case we probably would be talking about something else. We're on a music forum, and downloading/piracy is as big of a subject to discuss as the dangers of untrained lifecasters is on the FX artist forum I post on. S'just tinternet.