This is a question mostly for Devy himself but if anyone else has good stuff to say about this then please do.

I've been trying to get into growling/screaming for my own solo music project. I've been vacuuming the internet for resources on this topic but I'm not satisfied. I've seen all the high graded stuff on YouTube, I've bought the Zen of Screaming 1 and 2 DVDs by Marissa Cross (which gives some real nice info though), I've read books and I have off course been practicing a lot, recording my own songs... and drunken more water the past one year than ever before . I also took a few lessons but she said it's not good for my voice (which I expected her to say after seeing Zen of Sceraming... very hard to find teachers for this)...

Screaming your lungs out with you false vocal chords is probably the easiest technique to grasp in the beginnign but I've realized now that's it takes too much air to maintain the tone for as long as I want so I've been trying the Vocal Fry technique instead which seems to be the best but hard to master... it's very hard to pronouce words, you almost have to do these exhadurated facial and mouth expressions to get the words out there and at the moment it sounds shit when i try.

I've been in contact with a few of the bands I look up to on myspace but they basically say "Have no idea, I just scream, practice man... ".

So... Devy, I'm under the impression that you mostly do Vocal Fry, especially hear that from Herman on the Ziltoid album, right? Do you ever use your false chords at all and have you ever? How have you gotten to where you are now, are you self-taught or have you taken any lessons? Have you seen Zen of Screaming? You pick up from other singers on tours?

I don't want to sound like the devy, I like my own voice but i would like to be able to actually deliver the ideas I have in my head and right now I can't... frustrating as fuck!

Any tips on how to get further, anyone? I can't be alone with these questions?

I reckon that if you're trying excessively hard to do something you're not good at, especially something which requires specific criteria to be met in terms of your own vocal capacity, you should just give up. I also think that people who tell you to practise harder (even though it's clearly difficult and hurting you) are really fucking stupid, from a medical point of view. You could irreparably damage your vocal chords, and that's not particularly desirable for somebody who wants to pursue music long-term. Maybe if you'd like screaming in your music so much, you should bring in somebody (like an alter-ego?) to do it with you. Although I think screaming needs to be a natural thing for it to work in a song, otherwise it sounds like you're just trying to sounds heavy and you end up looking like you're just acting the maggot to impress people. Also Zen of Screaming sounds like a sort of meditation DVD, is it?

Just my two cent, take from it what you will.

I'm no vocalist but I'm really interested in this as well. It always sounded to me like Dev was screaming in a really... painful way. Zen of Screaming 1&2 are sort of "tutorial" vids for those kind of vocals.

Zyprexa has a point. If you practise of scream in a way that it hurts, then stop and find a different way of doing it, because you will perminantly damage your vocal chords. Same can be said with normal singing as well though.

Do you sing normally anyway? Your best bet,(believe it or not) is to steal some techniques from opera singers. For example, singing from your diaphram. It makes your voice stronger, and you may find it easier to turn into a scream too. Another way, is try practising it by talking, like putting a voice on if that makes sense, and then try and taking it louder.

If you don't already, or haven't learnt to sing and gone straight into screaming, then I would definatly learn to sing first. Its like learning to run before you can walk otherwise.

Hope that helps a little.

I've figured out how to scream with my false chords so it doesn't hurt... a year ago I could do it for 5 seconds then I would cough real bad but now i can probably do it in the studio for an hour a day if I just have a lot of water and stop if i feel the chords are stressed. I've found the feeling where I can relax my throat doing that so It's not hurting me, that's been my no. 1 priority from the beginning, to not damage anything... I can sing a little, but not very powerful.

But this thread should not be about me so much... I wanted to know more about other people's approaches and mostly Devin's off course ... I hope he has time to answer at some point.

It always sounded to me like Dev was screaming in a really... painful way.

SYL - Wrong Side - 0:28

I don't think that style hurts him at all. But something like:

Dev - Ziltoid - Planet Smasher - 1:52

That to me sounds like he's completely grinding his chords and destroying them. Compare that growl to Mikael Akerfeldt, who's growl just sounds more like air passing through his throat at a high amplitude (in the lower growls... you can hear some raspiness when he makes it higher / opens his mouth fully)

I'm no pro though, obviously.

No, but the vocals he did on The New Black were different, they were more growling, you could hear the difference, especially on Wrong Side. I'm thinking the vocals like these

[youtube]phfDlML9AXI[/youtube]

I would just say from working with singers and trying it all myself...

Take care of yourself, your voice especially. No smoking, excessive drinking or drugs (this does wonders for motivation too ). Eat right, exercise (lots of cardio)...it all matters, and helps. And practice, practice, practice.

I am with the others here though. Some people have to work SO HARD to achieve greatness in the vocal department (myself included), but it IS possible. Others just HAVE IT. Take Phil Anselmo, that dude can put away a fifth of Jack, a bag of heroin and a pack of Lucky strikes and sound like a million bucks. Sometimes, the grittier the better. It all depends on the type of approach/style you are going for.

Good luck!

Dan

It always sounded to me like Dev was screaming in a really... painful way.

SYL - Wrong Side - 0:28

I don't think that style hurts him at all. But something like:

Dev - Ziltoid - Planet Smasher - 1:52

That to me sounds like he's completely grinding his chords and destroying them. Compare that growl to Mikael Akerfeldt, who's growl just sounds more like air passing through his throat at a high amplitude (in the lower growls... you can hear some raspiness when he makes it higher / opens his mouth fully)

I'm no pro though, obviously.

I actually find it easier to copy the "Planet Smasher" vocal style than Devin's higher pitched screaming style. Trying that really hurts my throat in the long run. I have to agree Abydost in that to me Devin's screaming style sounds painful. Atleast it is painful for me to try. Especially with the really crazy screams like 6.57 in Deadhead (and other parts of the song). I can't do that. No way. Normal death metal style growls, I can deliver just about decently without hurting my throat, but I'm not a vocalist of any kind.

I am with the others here though. Some people have to work SO HARD to achieve greatness in the vocal department (myself included), but it IS possible. Others just HAVE IT. Take Phil Anselmo, that dude can put away a fifth of Jack, a bag of heroin and a pack of Lucky strikes and sound like a million bucks. Sometimes, the grittier the better. It all depends on the type of approach/style you are going for.

I agree with that, i'm in your same situation so you may find frustrating the fact that you have to practise a lot, but you have to know that because you didn't born with it (actually i don't know if you didn't, sorry if i'm wrong) doesn't mean you can't do that kind of vocals, just as Dan said.

No, but the vocals he did on The New Black were different, they were more growling, you could hear the difference, especially on Wrong Side. I'm thinking the vocals like these

[youtube]phfDlML9AXI[/youtube]

This must be vocal fry which does'nt stress your vocal chords as much... but he's real loud doing it. Amazing power, I'm pretty sure it's the same technique as for Herman.

It always sounded to me like Dev was screaming in a really... painful way.

SYL - Wrong Side - 0:28

I don't think that style hurts him at all. But something like:

Dev - Ziltoid - Planet Smasher - 1:52

That to me sounds like he's completely grinding his chords and destroying them. Compare that growl to Mikael Akerfeldt, who's growl just sounds more like air passing through his throat at a high amplitude (in the lower growls... you can hear some raspiness when he makes it higher / opens his mouth fully)

I'm no pro though, obviously.

I actually find it easier to copy the "Planet Smasher" vocal style than Devin's higher pitched screaming style. Trying that really hurts my throat in the long run. I have to agree Abydost in that to me Devin's screaming style sounds painful. Atleast it is painful for me to try. Especially with the really crazy screams like 6.57 in Deadhead (and other parts of the song). I can't do that. No way. Normal death metal style growls, I can deliver just about decently without hurting my throat, but I'm not a vocalist of any kind.

Same for me, planet smasher is easier for me (to try and copy) than any high pitch stuff. great to read that someone else had actually thought the same thing

I've figured out how to scream with my false chords so it doesn't hurt... a year ago I could do it for 5 seconds then I would cough real bad but now i can probably do it in the studio for an hour a day if I just have a lot of water and stop if i feel the chords are stressed. I've found the feeling where I can relax my throat doing that so It's not hurting me, that's been my no. 1 priority from the beginning, to not damage anything... I can sing a little, but not very powerful.

But this thread should not be about me so much... I wanted to know more about other people's approaches and mostly Devin's off course ... I hope he has time to answer at some point.

I would defo recommend trying to find a opera singer, or tutorials on the web or something then once you find the "proper" place to sing from it makes your voice much stronger. Unfortunatly though you kinda have to get re-used to singing all over again.

Also, apperently eating chillies helps increase vocal range?

Try warm-ups and cool-downs.

Also, try to sing from the stomach, not the throat.

I think Devin uses a pitch shift effect for Herman.

no he's not