The place to speak about Dev's current projects, and everything yet to come
#178775 by soundsofentropy
Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:16 pm
Mealz wrote:I would have to say, its so post-modern to say that 'whatever floats your boat' or 'each to their own' but i think its obvious that in the long run, drugs really do bad things to ones mental state, wether you respect the drug or not, it does toy with your psyche, can give you bad or good experience, but wouldnt you want something more real to experience? i know this is another can of worms in terms of the philosophy of whats reality. but cmon, you gotta draw a line at some point. By no means am i discrediting anyone who takes any drugs, or saying its bad. Just also speaking from experience though, its not the beez nees in experiencing what life can offer, and in many cases myself and others that i know, its another hinderence in terms of facing some real issues, relational and internal. Ehh i hope that doesnt piss anyone off, just thought i'd give my two cents for no apparent reason :p


Well, it's hardly post-modern, but that's an etymological issue and not one worth discussing. I think your point is that tolerance and privatization of opinion is currently the modernistic status quo, with which I'd agree. :)

As far as drugs being innately negative, I wholly disagree. Drugs do not affect someone negatively unless the drug is abused in such a way as to forsake the mind for the experiences of pure inebriation. I could cite several examples of people who receive little or no negative impact, often to be outweighed in the long run by a positive impact (I'm not talking about medical use, although it could extend to that. I'm referring to those who have opened their minds with the help of drugs--Aldous Huxley, Carl Sagan, etc.) However, I'm not saying that drugs are purely positive either. They simply are. No connotations. Your experience of reality, whatever reality is deemed to be, may be changed by drugs, but certainly the polarity of the impact is entirely determined by your own internal chemical reactions--emotions. Essentially, the point I'm trying to get across is that regardless of what life can offer, you'll experience it however you choose to experience it, and this is not necessarily good or bad. The drugs really have nothing to do with it. High or sober, experiencing reality is relating to the physical world; neither state is "more real." You could argue that being sober is more natural, I suppose, but at this stage in the development of mankind, the idea of being "natural" is a bit too idealistic.

Drugs can have a profound effect on emotions. After all, it's just chemical soup, anyway. This is why drugs (especially when abused, rather than used on an occasional, recreational basis) tend to lead to "clouding" and other non-physical difficulties. Would I encourage everyone to do drugs? Of course not. But encouraging everyone not to do drugs, or even suggesting that pure sobriety is ethically and psychologically superior to non-habitual inebriation is another side of the same coin. The varieties of experience ought not to be discouraged.

By the way, I'm in no way pissed, in case I came off that way. I just felt obligated to give my two cents as well. I used to do a lot of drugs, but have been clean for quite some time now. Life is life, and it's all you've got; how you lead it is up to you. :wink:
#178776 by soundsofentropy
Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:21 pm
Devy, spelled Devy! wrote:
Mealz wrote:yes thankyou amber ;) it was actually really easy and the best thing to do....

I would have to say, its so post-modern to say that 'whatever floats your boat' or 'each to their own' but i think its obvious that in the long run, drugs really do bad things to ones mental state, wether you respect the drug or not, it does toy with your psyche, can give you bad or good experience, but wouldnt you want something more real to experience? i know this is another can of worms in terms of the philosophy of whats reality. but cmon, you gotta draw a line at some point. By no means am i discrediting anyone who takes any drugs, or saying its bad. Just also speaking from experience though, its not the beez nees in experiencing what life can offer, and in many cases myself and others that i know, its another hinderence in terms of facing some real issues, relational and internal. Ehh i hope that doesnt piss anyone off, just thought i'd give my two cents for no apparent reason :p


Doesn't piss me off - I think you have a good point. Taking on life as it comes at you completely sober is incredibly hard. I know no other way, so the downs are really down, the ups are really up. There's no safety net of checking out when things get hard. At least, that's how I see it.


Taking on life completely high all the time would also be incredibly hard. The downs would still be downs, the ups would still be ups, and sometimes they would be even more intense than they ought to be. Either extreme is more difficult than the middle. The problem is that it's also quite difficult to balance on the fence. :wink:

I don't mean to criticize, by the way...
#178790 by The Dev
Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:29 am
Very cool guys!

Yeah no 'check out net' makes things pretty raw. But in some ways, way more intense and visceral. I think if music operates on multiple levels, drugs tend to make you unaware of some things youre saying . Once you realize it, it's already done and you can feel 'duped' and kind of stupid...

Sober is much harder I believe, the highs are fleeting, but raw and furious. It takes alot more to crack the interest open...when I was smoking lots, I could get excited about almost anything and brain out for an hour on a riff...you could see something like laminate flooring, and bring it back metaphorically to it's source, and then get really caught up in your own cleverness and write something cool. Now it's like...'well, it's a fucking FLOOR, call me when there's something interesting to write about' (as an example of course)

I sit in the studio for days with NOTHING, then start rueing the fact that I'm sober, and that I'm out of ideas...and then, as I'm not thinking about it, something cool and literal presents itself in a bright, raw, and crazy way, that you have to be READY to capture, or you'll lose interest...the benefit is being in control of what the music represnts on ALL levels...and have the ability to mold that, and not be led by it.

I have been thinking that anything I need drugs to be 'great' at, maybe I'm not very good at to begin with and should look elsewhere. And if my ego is so 'attatched' to how I appear under the influence, and I KNOW (for me) that it's no good for my mental state to do so, I guess the time comes to get over it and just be honest. For better or for worse in the audiences eyes.

Who knows? It may even be better.

But again, is it a cop out to say 'do what you will?' I guess everybody is so different, and no one has the answers, so I think experience allows you to give advice based on it, but there's always people smarter and dumber than you that don't agree.

I have 30 songs as of today! oi...

dev
#178796 by Persuader
Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:56 am
The Dev wrote:Now it's like...'well, it's a fucking FLOOR, call me when there's something interesting to write about' (as an example of course)


That cracked me up, haha.... :mrgreen:

30 songs ey? Can't be that bad with the idea catching then.
#178797 by AlucardXIX
Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:59 am
30 songs?! Thats 2 or 3 albums!! Haha

Dammit Dev I know how it is to feel so uninspired! I sit around trying to write things for hours and nothing comes out. No matter how much I stimulate my mind with music and other forms of media I just cant come up with anything.

I think there comes a point where you need outside influence from another person or two. To feed off their ideas, and they feed off yours.

DAMMIT I need to find a band or start one!
#178801 by FUBAR
Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:12 am
The Dev wrote:

I have 30 songs as of today! oi...

dev


Awesome, thank god you said that.

Some of the things you were saying were making me that maybe you had hit a creative brick wall or something.
#178805 by FUBAR
Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:38 am
Abydost wrote:*cough* 2-CD album? :d


Maybe even three! or maybe one two disc epic, or maybe...ect etc
#178808 by Biert
Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:37 am
AlucardXIX wrote:Dammit Dev I know how it is to feel so uninspired! I sit around trying to write things for hours and nothing comes out. No matter how much I stimulate my mind with music and other forms of media I just cant come up with anything.

I think there comes a point where you need outside influence from another person or two. To feed off their ideas, and they feed off yours.

Yeah ranting about it on the internet will fix that ;)
#178814 by AlucardXIX
Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:55 am
Biert wrote:
AlucardXIX wrote:Dammit Dev I know how it is to feel so uninspired! I sit around trying to write things for hours and nothing comes out. No matter how much I stimulate my mind with music and other forms of media I just cant come up with anything.

I think there comes a point where you need outside influence from another person or two. To feed off their ideas, and they feed off yours.

Yeah ranting about it on the internet will fix that ;)

Psh I wish!
#178823 by Amber
Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:53 am
The Dev wrote:
Sober is much harder I believe, the highs are fleeting, but raw and furious. It takes alot more to crack the interest open...when I was smoking lots, I could get excited about almost anything and brain out for an hour on a riff...you could see something like laminate flooring, and bring it back metaphorically to it's source, and then get really caught up in your own cleverness and write something cool. Now it's like...'well, it's a fucking FLOOR, call me when there's something interesting to write about' (as an example of course)
dev


...I can be that amazed by something on the floor without drugs... Haha - I'm kidding but I sure do get hyped easily enough.

I have been thinking that anything I need drugs to be 'great' at, maybe I'm not very good at to begin with and should look elsewhere. And if my ego is so 'attatched' to how I appear under the influence, and I KNOW (for me) that it's no good for my mental state to do so, I guess the time comes to get over it and just be honest. For better or for worse in the audiences eyes.

I thought that was interesting - But in what way do you mean to be great at something? Like, (for example) being able to pick up an instrument, and play it straight away? Or having the time an patience to learn it? Just curious. :D
And I hate the feeling of being incredibly inspired, and then trying to create something, but it all comes out looking(or sounding) wrong. I think that annoys me more than not being inspired at all.

Oh, and soemthing I learnt - Never give 'advise.' Give your opinion. People can blame you if you give them your advise, but if you voice your opinion on something, then you aren't directly telling them what to do. I'm sure thats a cop out though :P

And damn, Entropy - You seem to know both sides of the fence so well. I love how you can easily see things from both points of view - It's always an interesting read. I'd come up with something more clever, but my brain is fried right now. I couldn't help but think though from your post, though (This is probably going to open yet another can of worms xD)

Is it really more natural, if we have the technology to do it the first place? Thinking of old tribes for example, they managed to find all sorts of neurotics for rituals and things. Theres a religious view point you can probably add in here too, but I'll leave that out for now. (I'm not sure what the general feeling of religion is on here)
#178826 by Devy, spelled Devy!
Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:04 pm
The Dev wrote:Very cool guys!

Yeah no 'check out net' makes things pretty raw. But in some ways, way more intense and visceral. I think if music operates on multiple levels, drugs tend to make you unaware of some things youre saying . Once you realize it, it's already done and you can feel 'duped' and kind of stupid...

Sober is much harder I believe, the highs are fleeting, but raw and furious. It takes alot more to crack the interest open...when I was smoking lots, I could get excited about almost anything and brain out for an hour on a riff...you could see something like laminate flooring, and bring it back metaphorically to it's source, and then get really caught up in your own cleverness and write something cool. Now it's like...'well, it's a fucking FLOOR, call me when there's something interesting to write about' (as an example of course)

I sit in the studio for days with NOTHING, then start rueing the fact that I'm sober, and that I'm out of ideas...and then, as I'm not thinking about it, something cool and literal presents itself in a bright, raw, and crazy way, that you have to be READY to capture, or you'll lose interest...the benefit is being in control of what the music represnts on ALL levels...and have the ability to mold that, and not be led by it.

I have been thinking that anything I need drugs to be 'great' at, maybe I'm not very good at to begin with and should look elsewhere. And if my ego is so 'attatched' to how I appear under the influence, and I KNOW (for me) that it's no good for my mental state to do so, I guess the time comes to get over it and just be honest. For better or for worse in the audiences eyes.

Who knows? It may even be better.

But again, is it a cop out to say 'do what you will?' I guess everybody is so different, and no one has the answers, so I think experience allows you to give advice based on it, but there's always people smarter and dumber than you that don't agree.

I have 30 songs as of today! oi...

dev


^^This is very insightful - I like knowing what goes on inside the mind of a musician. :) This post made me feel like less of a loser for having tumble weeds passing through the mental landscape at the moment!

Yeah no 'check out net' makes things pretty raw. But in some ways, way more intense and visceral...Sober is much harder I believe, the highs are fleeting, but raw and furious. It takes alot more to crack the interest open


This is kind of the idea I was hoping to get at, only Mr. Devin worded it a lot better. I'm not as good at working words like "visceral," "raw," and "furious," into conversation as the Dev is :lol: But in my own humble opinion, I believe he is right on this point.


I could get excited about almost anything and brain out for an hour on a riff

'Brain out'... that's a new phrase!! Neato - I'm going to try to work that into the next conversation I have *shifty eyes*


I have 30 songs as of today! oi...


That .... that is wonderful. What a pleasant thing to read first thing in the morning - I shall eat an honorary bowl of cereal to Devin's awesomeness!

p.s Entropy - I see what you are saying. It seems like we are both heading in the 'everything in moderation' direction, eh? You make some really good points, and interesting ones too; I only know one side of the coin, so pardon me for any mis-speakings. =D
#178835 by soundsofentropy
Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:11 pm
The Dev wrote:Very cool guys!

Yeah no 'check out net' makes things pretty raw. But in some ways, way more intense and visceral. I think if music operates on multiple levels, drugs tend to make you unaware of some things youre saying . Once you realize it, it's already done and you can feel 'duped' and kind of stupid...

Sober is much harder I believe, the highs are fleeting, but raw and furious. It takes alot more to crack the interest open...when I was smoking lots, I could get excited about almost anything and brain out for an hour on a riff...you could see something like laminate flooring, and bring it back metaphorically to it's source, and then get really caught up in your own cleverness and write something cool. Now it's like...'well, it's a fucking FLOOR, call me when there's something interesting to write about' (as an example of course)

I sit in the studio for days with NOTHING, then start rueing the fact that I'm sober, and that I'm out of ideas...and then, as I'm not thinking about it, something cool and literal presents itself in a bright, raw, and crazy way, that you have to be READY to capture, or you'll lose interest...the benefit is being in control of what the music represnts on ALL levels...and have the ability to mold that, and not be led by it.

I have been thinking that anything I need drugs to be 'great' at, maybe I'm not very good at to begin with and should look elsewhere. And if my ego is so 'attatched' to how I appear under the influence, and I KNOW (for me) that it's no good for my mental state to do so, I guess the time comes to get over it and just be honest. For better or for worse in the audiences eyes.

Who knows? It may even be better.

But again, is it a cop out to say 'do what you will?' I guess everybody is so different, and no one has the answers, so I think experience allows you to give advice based on it, but there's always people smarter and dumber than you that don't agree.

I have 30 songs as of today! oi...

dev


Well-said, sir. Especially the bit about easy excitability when high--been there, written some tripe to show it. Perhaps I'll write a "Linoleum Waltz" sometime in the future. :D

DsD - I was really just being a cheeky bastard. It is harder to go through life sober (the post I've quoted shows some serious introspection and wisdom on the matter). But, a good thing to consider is that drugs don't have to be used as a "safety net." In fact, confining use to infrequent occasions in which the use isn't essentially escapism could be quite beneficial. It all depends on the person. So now I'm getting back to the "do what you will" axiom, it seems... :wink:

Amber - Personally, I'm not religious at all. Watch Carlin's sketch on God to see some of my religious views comically acted out. That said, it doesn't mean I'm anti-philosophical. Part of what puts me here on this forum is a respect for the ways in which Devin expresses the "spiritual" or the emotional-philosophical in his music/lyrics. Regardless, the point was that it doesn't matter whether or not it's "natural." Drugs come from natural things--plants, fungi, etc. People in most religious holy books did drugs, as did many tribal groups. So is it more natural not to do drugs? You could argue that drugs are natural and so are people, and maybe people just have some innate inclination to inebriate themselves with things around them. But maybe they don't, and inebriation is unnatural. But so is curing diseases, mitigating viral effects, using phones, using internet, watching television, living in houses, wearing clothes, etc. We'll never know, because research that could better explain the phenomena relating to drug use are strictly prohibited by (at least where I am) the government. I was trying to say that it doesn't matter whether or not having altered states of consciousness are "natural"--you're going to experience life either way; you're just changing the ways in which you experience it. In principle, neither is more real than the other. Reality is what you make it; your emotions make the choice.

Dev - Thirty songs?! Holy fuck, you just made my year (even if that does get trimmed by the end)!! Thanks for the update! :D :D
#178891 by Mealz
Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:26 am
30 songs?!?!!? kickin ass!

i would have to agree with dev, smokin up for a long time, it is way easier to be 'amused' or 'inspired' at say, bee's, i used to sit for literaly hours and watch them in my backyard going from flower to flower polinating, wobbling the stems as they hammer onto them as horny as can be, if you get close enough you could see the little orange bag on them. I also find being sober theres a need for something else. To me now, relationships come number 1. then again, i did used to smoke a heck of a lot so i might just be a special case (can i say 'retarted')

....But musically, when sober i find it much more challenging to write something interesting to keep entertained (from a self pleasing aspect) i think in turn, possibly you write better music, but it is a different mental state than being stoned, so it is going to be different regardless. I dont think that being in a stoned state of mind is any better or worse. just different.

The Dev wrote:
I have been thinking that anything I need drugs to be 'great' at, maybe I'm not very good at to begin with and should look elsewhere. And if my ego is so 'attatched' to how I appear under the influence, and I KNOW (for me) that it's no good for my mental state to do so, I guess the time comes to get over it and just be honest. For better or for worse in the audiences eyes.

Who knows? It may even be better.



you dont have to be stoned to enjoy stoner music either... say 'phssssst' , i use to think it was one of the greatest stoner albums of all time, like i felt like 'i got it' coz i was a stoner. now sober, just as fckn ace and rockin and obviously to people who are sober they love it too no? SO making music either way sober or stoned, if you have people interested that should be the indicator for any quality you have , i dont think some magic potion or herb you smoke could make you seem any better or worse to others musically (unless your just absoulutly wasted and cant physically play haha)

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