from an interview with Devin;

How do you create the massive walls of sound that you have on Alien and also sometimes on Synchestra?

I'm a big fan of multitracking. I hear lots of things going together at the same time. I just kind of go with that and go like "That was cool. You know what it needs? More!", and then when I'm done with putting more on I go "Yeah, that sounds great. But you know what would be even better? That's if I put more in there". And by the end when I'm done I think "...and now I have to mix this??? Holy shit!".

i know it doesn't really answer the question, but...

Infinity is the paragon of multitracking. Was it for Infinity only or early records in general that he created synth sounds with massive guitar tracking, like 120 tracks of guitar just because he hated synths back then or something?

he uses exactly one hundred and forty nine layers of guitar for every single section of every single song

In other words, no one should care because you don't and if you don't no one should, because you think it's not important and therefore is not important and you desperately need to tell us that you feel this way?

It suddenly seems to make sense when Goat says it


I remember an interview with James Hetfield (Metallica) that I saw, about the recording of The Black Album with Bob Rock: "We had this massive wall of sound going on, Bob would have me record... like... 3 rhythm guitar tracks "

Cool, guys, glad to have found a topic to start with that hasn't been beaten to death...

I know very little about recording and production and all that (heck, I can barely play music at all anyways). I'm just really curious why, after listening to a song by Devy, anything else I put on sounds kinda shallow and vague. Over a hundred tracks, though? That's intense. I would imagine it's got to be either viciously difficult or incredibly superfluous, otherwise everyone would do it. I'm going to protect my interests and believe in the former, then.

But that Metallica quote is hilarious.

he uses exactly one hundred and forty nine layers of guitar for every single section of every single song

Thanks for your contribution.

Cool, guys, glad to have found a topic to start with that hasn't been beaten to death...

I know very little about recording and production and all that (heck, I can barely play music at all anyways). I'm just really curious why, after listening to a song by Devy, anything else I put on sounds kinda shallow and vague. Over a hundred tracks, though? That's intense. I would imagine it's got to be either viciously difficult or incredibly superfluous, otherwise everyone would do it. I'm going to protect my interests and believe in the former, then.

But that Metallica quote is hilarious.

If you listen to the beginning of "All Hail the New Flesh", you'll notice that the wall of sound is so dense that it basically smothers the riff underneath. This was very deliberate, I am sure, and could not have been achieved without some insane overdub sessions. Heavy layering is an integral part of Devin's sound, and has been since the beginning. In the early days, critics attributed it to his having worked with Steve Via, who was also a big fan of layering...

Steve Via rocks

:lol: Steve Via rocks

lololololololololololol @ typo

I've wondered about this a lot. I wish the making of video for Alien gave more details. (BTW, is that still available online? Can it be downloaded?) I agree that once you listen to Dev's music that other stuff sounds very empty. In the beginning, that made it hard to get into it. Even my wife today will say that Dev's music gives her a headache. I imagine it's that wall of sound thing. The stuff on the new Ziltoid myspeace sounds pretty layered, especially By Your Command.

:lol: Steve Vai rocks

I also enjoy the Vai. Of course, I might never have gotten into Devin's music without Vai. Dev's said very often that Vai had big influence on his sound.

...having worked with Steve Via, who was also a big fan of layering...

Steve Via Rocks

I can tell you right now that I'm pretty sure the '100+ guitar tracks!" thing is either a joke or a myth. I once tracked 56 guitar tracks for a single short riff just to see how it would sound, and it sounded like total shit. I consider myself a moderately tight guitarist, but even for someone whose timing and picking is completely flawless (if someone with that capability even exists), that many layers totally obliterates any crunch or liveliness in the sound. It just sounds like a massive, nearly percussive soup of smoothed-over somethings that are barely recognizable as guitar tracks. Of course, it did sound kinda cool in a different context, and can be used to interesting effect for small sections or ambient backing tracks... Basically, it's a neat technique if used for the right things, but as a constant method of recording it just falls apart.

...That said, none of that is going to stop me from trying it for a full album one day.

the thing i am casually trying to point out is that there is no key number of layers.

it is just a matter of "taste" when you are trying to make the sound you want.

its like asking how many brush marks are in that painting?

i could see the point maybe if there were very few layers you could say this old blues recording is one layer, or, this song was recorded on just a 4 track and you could discuss the idea of overdubs.

Just like if you look at zen brush art you can see hey that painting is only 7 marks. But after awhile the number doesnt matter and it is what you are left with, is it good art or not.

it all gets mixed down to two layers Left and Right anyway yeah?

if you are really interested in how many layers were in the cubase file of a song, disregard, but it would be different for every song and could vary completely between different songs based on what the artist feels they need.

Yeah, I understand what you were going for. I was mainly referring to the couple other posts that mentioned an absurdly large number of tracks. (though I realize they may not be too serious :p)

Also, I'm aware your post may not have been directed at me.
...I think I just negated the whole purpose of posting this.

tis cool man say enyfink