I really can´t figure it out why that song was not on the biomech album in the first place. The mood is just there! It´s got to be one of the top 3 songs from Dev ever.

Devin did think it was too long but even if he decided to include it, there is not enough room on a CD. That record filled all available space. As said, something else would have to go and given the length, it would have to be a few songs. And no, Bastard is not an option

Remove Things Beyond Things and then there's room for OM! Well that's too late anyway

And no, Bastard is not an option

Though we might disagree on the re-recording issue, I'm definitely with you on "defending" Bastard (sounds strange, eh?)



I know how quickly Dev can change his musical directions - thinking of SYL/ DTB - and he seems to like the challenge of creating something new with each record and to add new things to his music that haven't been there on previous ones. So concerning this aspect, I totally understand that re-doing things really isn't Dev's cup of tea and I respect him for that. But when I think of Ocean Machines with a huuuge production I just get greedy, no matter if it's realistic or not

"Bastard" is one of my favourite Devin-songs. Ocean Machines is nice but i agree that it´s too long (Bastard is NOT).

I wouldn´t want to change anything on the album either, i like Bastard aswell - didn´t want this to be either/or thing...the song is just soooo damn good i´d really want to have it somewhere on a official release, the version on ass-sordid would even do, maybe as a bonus or whatever - but that song deserves a place in a official release instead of beeing a hard to find jewel it is now.

I used to think SYL was the best of em all, that´s why i picked the ocean machine album in the first place coz i read an interview saying it was like "city" but without the blasts. One day i saw the CD in a local store and asked the guy working there to play it a bit - Night was the song and i had hair standing on the back of my head...you know the feeling - it was that good. I hate to say it but the last SYL albums just didn´t have those hair rising choruses "city" and even "heavier than a really heavy thing" had. But Dev´s solo projects still have em - and the song ocean machines is full of em.

I think a live version would be cool to put on a live dvd maybe or a live cd. Then it wouldn't really be redone just performed live.

I hate to say it but the last SYL albums just didn´t have those hair rising choruses "city" and even "heavier than a really heavy thing" had.

Dude! "Force Fed"? If that's not enough to raise you hairs, then you have either been killed some time ago(even corpses should react to that melody by spasms) or had a very, very careful shave.

My hairs were risen throughout pretty much all of Alien, until I heard the finale of Zen, at which point they shot out of my skin and flew off into the sky (I was outside at the time). Now I feel naked and alienated.

I'm a bit baffled as to why anyone would want to take "Bastard" off of Ocean Machines. The only song I could live without would be "The Death Of Music." Sure, it's a damn cool song, but I usually skip it. That is the only song that I would replace "Ocean Machines" with.

Dude! "Force Fed"? If that's not enough to raise you hairs, then you have either been killed some time ago(even corpses should react to that melody by spasms) or had a very, very careful shave.

Ooops...totally forgot that one! That one was good, you´re right - my mistake. But still City had "Detox", "Underneath", "All hail", "Spirituality" and "AAA" - So even with Force fed, SYL is heavily outnumbered. Didn´t even listen Alien to the end which is weird. It is a performance definetily, in all it´s musical presiciveness...but...it lacks something what the first two albums had. A lot of the current day heavy music has more in common with an athletic performance than music, throwing in stuff just for the sole intention to prove the world that i can do this and this...and that isn´t what i´m interested. Sure it´s cool to watch and listen to for 2 minutes but nothing more.

But back to Ocean Machines...dropping "Death of music" is NOT AN OPTION. At least in my opinion. Once the "song" really begins...man i can´t even say how emotional that stuff is. Life is propably the song i like the least on biomech, not that it would suck - the rest are just so much better.

I'm a bit baffled as to why anyone would want to take "Bastard" off of Ocean Machines. The only song I could live without would be "The Death Of Music." Sure, it's a damn cool song, but I usually skip it. That is the only song that I would replace "Ocean Machines" with.

I agree. I personally think that The Death Of Music is mixed a little strangely too. I mean, it sounds a bit quiet. Has anyone else noticed this?

Things Beyond Things is a top song. Why was that even classed as a bonus track? Biomech isn't Biomech without it!!!

My only gripe with Ocean Machines is I think it loses its way around 5m26s because that change comes with very little dynamic impact and then when it suddenly comes back to the chorus around 7m05s it drags on for another minute and a half. That's why Dev thought it was too long too perhaps??

Personally I feel that the song should have been tweaked a little to last around 5 to 5m30s. That way Ocean Machines could have replaced Sister and 3 A.M. because that two-song lull has always bugged me a bit.

With that said I can totally see why they're in there but I usually skip Sister and 3 A.M. if I want to hear the "actual" songs and not feel the experience. Depends on my mood. Voices in the Fan would never work as well without 3 A.M. fading into it though so... OK I GIVE UP!!! Keep it how it is

OK I GIVE UP!!! Keep it how it is

That was a very very good way to end your post

Though I love Ocean Machines, the thought of putting it on Biomech instead of Bastard (one of my favourite songs ever) is just...

Ah well. "Keep it how it is"

Personally I feel that the song should have been tweaked a little to last around 5 to 5m30s. That way Ocean Machines could have replaced Sister and 3 A.M. because that two-song lull has always bugged me a bit.

gasp! you'll never do away with my beloved sister and 3am. Those songs relax me so much and get me ready for the 2nd half of the album.

I think "Sister" and "3 A.M." are excellent song, very atmospheric and interesting, but short, unlike "The Death Of Music," which I this is great, but I think it's too long.

[Blazingmonga]

I think "Sister" and "3 A.M." are excellent song, very atmospheric and interesting, but short, unlike "The Death Of Music," which I this is great, but I think it's too long.

I think these 3 songs are the songs of which the fan opinion is most divided.

Many seem to think the Sister/3AM combo is boring or unneccessary (I think it is essential). Others also seem to think that TDOM is similarly lacking...though these are in a smaller number.

I think it was a brave move for Devin to have the longest song on the album be one which is also the most electronic/ambient/un-metal. To me that is what makes it work so well. Its not just an interlude, you have to sink right into it to get the full effect. It ebbs and flows, swells and fades. The length is perfect for me because I find it such a soothing song. Something clear, smooth and cleansing after the rich, dense textures before it. That contrast, both in length and style is what makes it such an awesome climax.

And then of course you have Things Beyond Things to take you back to the beginning.

I talk such nonsense sometimes. If anyone can understand that gibberish, then please tell me.

Bastard is one of my favourites, I love the "whale" sounding downtuned guitars on that one - so wonderfully depressing! So NO replacing it with Ocean Machines, OK!



That being said, Ocean Machines would have been a great third or fourth song on Accelerated Evolution. Oh well...