Why do so many people really think that there is such a thing? It's amazing the amount of ignorant people I have to work with and be around each day that really 100% believe that when it comes to morals there is a wrong and right. They don't believe in difference of opinion even when it comes to the most extreme examples. Examples such as Is murder wrong? I myself think yes it is wrong given situational circumstances but others may find it to be perfectly fine and I can't say other wise because it's their own moral code.

So for fellow board members, has anyone else come across these sort of people in their daily routine? The ones that are totally ignorant to the possibility that there are people out there that do not believe in what they believe in and or do not agree with what they determine right and wrong. I'm beyond frustrated right now that I even have to work with these people.

Why do so many people really think that there is such a thing? It's amazing the amount of ignorant people I have to work with and be around each day that really 100% believe that when it comes to morals there is a wrong and right. They don't believe in difference of opinion even when it comes to the most extreme examples. Examples such as Is murder wrong? I myself think yes it is wrong given situational circumstances but others may find it to be perfectly fine and I can't say other wise because it's their own moral code.

So for fellow board members, has anyone else come across these sort of people in their daily routine? The ones that are totally ignorant to the possibility that there are people out there that do not believe in what they believe in and or do not agree with what they determine right and wrong. I'm beyond frustrated right now that I even have to work with these people.

I promise you anyone who murders someone else in cold blood has a mental condition. So yes, mind set plays a big part.

I think with some things we can all agree are "universally right and wrong". Is it right to rob a bank? Is it right to kill someone in cold blood? Honestly, I cant think of any possible way to justify either.

A poor intro to a potentially enjoyable discussion. You talk about giving heed to the opinions of others, but yourself already attack, alienate and disregard those who say otherwise to what you say by calling them "ignorant" and by your tone. I am one of those people you are talking about. A word of wisdom: just as we hold our tongues when face to face with someone in a frustrating situation, cool down before you post, as you yourself said you are "beyond frustrated."

You may not be able to and neither can I but its ignorant for either of us to say that someone in the world couldn't justify it. We so blindly assume that everyone in the world shares the same moral code that we do.

"Once the variables of divergent culture, religion, and personal circumstance get tossed into the equation the analysis of moral rights and wrongs will produce an infinite list of possible values"

You may not be able to and neither can I but its ignorant for either of us to say that someone in the world couldn't justify it. We so blindly assume that everyone in the world shares the same moral code that we do.

"Once the variables of divergent culture, religion, and personal circumstance get tossed into the equation the analysis of moral rights and wrongs will produce an infinite list of possible values"

Again, I said I cant think of a way to justify something such as cold blooded murder. But please, find me someone who can who is in a sound state of mind. No Ted Bundy's please.

[Octillus]

Well in general, we as human beings adhere to what as known as a social contract. Basically what that means is that we take part in society because while it restricts certain freedoms, it overall gives us a greater protection from the world at large and archaic "Might makes right" scenarios. Keeping this in mind there are some inherent moral values that seem to be across most societies that are looked down upon (keep in mind that I said most) such as: Murder, rape, and stealing of someone else's property. Now a society with a weak social contract (i.e. someone can just overthrow it and commit these crimes easily) will not be able to uphold these laws, while a society that is too strict will over-enforce them.

Where things get sticky is when religion gets involved. Being the Agnostic Jew kid that I am, I kinda see that these religious tenants obviously were important back in the day at setting up the social contract ("Let's not kill each other because that fireball in the sky will get angry at us!"), but at this stage in development I think it's holding the free society back from advancement. Just the same, we have strong cultural ties to restrictive religious moral outlooks, so breaking these chains is obviously a step by step process.


But this is all just my opinion.

I'mma go write about manically depressed lava men now, bye.

I'mma go write about manically depressed lava men now, bye.

sorry to go OT but that sounds fascinating.

[Octillus]

I'mma go write about manically depressed lava men now, bye.

sorry to go OT but that sounds fascinating.

It's for school. I'm taking a course called Writing for Interactive Media, and one of the things we have to do is maintain a blog. My blog is called "The Least Likely Apocalypse" and my first entry is about manically depressed lava men that just want to be held, and thus bring about the apocalypse.

I'll link the forums when it's a little more ready.

[JuZ]

I'mma go write about manically depressed lava men now, bye.

sorry to go OT but that sounds fascinating.

It's for school. I'm taking a course called Writing for Interactive Media, and one of the things we have to do is maintain a blog. My blog is called "The Least Likely Apocalypse" and my first entry is about manically depressed lava men that just want to be held, and thus bring about the apocalypse.

I'll link the forums when it's a little more ready.

That's golden. I'd read it.

Back to the OP, we're all bound to a social contract that allows us to go about our daily lives relatively free from the fear of the actions of others. Thinking out loud here, but unless you have no objection to being raped, assaulted, stolen from etc., you have to join in at some level, even if you disagree with the implementation. We are social creatures by nature, but I must admit I feel for those who don't have ALL these social instincts (ie those who wish to be alone, not those who wish to harm others!) - I used to wonder about the possibility of totally disconnecting. Given a plot of land, some beasts (optional for the vegie types) and a good crop, a person could be self-sustaining and opt out altogether.

But unless you find a piece of land that's totally unburdened by other human beings, you're going to have to deal with them, hence the social contract. We're kinda stuck with it, and for all its faults I'm glad we are.

Rationalization - we all do it. Or are we convinced by..........

There's just no freaking way anyone could justify murder. How long would it take for a civilization to fall if there were zero consequences for murder? People would just go along killing each other daily? How long would it take for you to move into another country or something?

They don't believe in difference of opinion even when it comes to the most extreme examples. Examples such as Is murder wrong

Dude wait what?!? If there is such a thing as universal moral value system isn't it logical that the extreme examples are the ones that are written in the dna/genes/whatever?

I think this thread will inevitably hit a wall in terms of originality because the general consensus has already pretty much been summed up. There are social guidelines and rules that we all have to fall into to attempt to keep everything calm, cool and collected and if we don't then we're plucked from society for what we've done wrong.

Obviously individuals will have different morals and beliefs that often push and break those "contractual" aspects of society, but you can't change the way some people are. Taking myself as an example, I don't have any problems with stealing. From big businesses, mind. Never directly from someone or from a small business. Just places like Virgin, Tesco, HMV, etc. Obviously not something that would be smiled upon but I couldn't really care less. It's easy and it's monetarily beneficial so I do it and wouldn't make any apologies for it... All six-odd billion of us can't all think and act the same way.

I think this thread will inevitably hit a wall in terms of originality because the general consensus has already pretty much been summed up. There are social guidelines and rules that we all have to fall into to attempt to keep everything calm, cool and collected and if we don't then we're plucked from society for what we've done wrong.

Obviously individuals will have different morals and beliefs that often push and break those "contractual" aspects of society, but you can't change the way some people are. Taking myself as an example, I don't have any problems with stealing. From big businesses, mind. Never directly from someone or from a small business. Just places like Virgin, Tesco, HMV, etc. Obviously not something that would be smiled upon but I couldn't really care less. It's easy and it's monetarily beneficial so I do it and wouldn't make any apologies for it... All six-odd billion of us can't all think and act the same way.

I agree with the above. My whole point of it all was for it to just be known that morals are nothing more than opinions and its pretty much impossible from my stand point to tell someone that their moral system is wrong when difference in opinion is what the world is made up of. Even if its in the extreme cases (in some people's opinions)

There is a "moral truth", or at least a few fundamental notions of morality, and there are no logically sound arguments for immorality. Any well thought-out logical argument will lead you to a moral act.

Also, simply saying you should follow your society's moral code does not constitute a valid moral stand. That is moral relativism, a self-contradicting view of morality.

I've also never understood why so many people think opinions are infallible.


Expect typos and mistakes, I am not sober.

I think this thread will inevitably hit a wall in terms of originality because the general consensus has already pretty much been summed up. There are social guidelines and rules that we all have to fall into to attempt to keep everything calm, cool and collected and if we don't then we're plucked from society for what we've done wrong.

Obviously individuals will have different morals and beliefs that often push and break those "contractual" aspects of society, but you can't change the way some people are. Taking myself as an example, I don't have any problems with stealing. From big businesses, mind. Never directly from someone or from a small business. Just places like Virgin, Tesco, HMV, etc. Obviously not something that would be smiled upon but I couldn't really care less. It's easy and it's monetarily beneficial so I do it and wouldn't make any apologies for it... All six-odd billion of us can't all think and act the same way.

Yes, but....what if you get caught? Are you willing to accept the consequences?