[swervedriver]

Without modern medicine I'd be dead now, so they've earned my trust. When the time comes that a vaccine is recommended for me (so far in the Netherlands they're only giving vaccines to risk groups, to which I don't think I belong), I will have mine without worries. Not that I'm blind some of the misgivings that are addressed in this thread, but in the area of supplying mind-control nano-bots or poisoning the population or whatever the current popular conspiracy theory is, I don't buy it.

If the vaccines are so great, then why some people died after taking it or get serious illness caused from it ? Maybe because it was not properly tested and government allowed that to happen.

First of all, like Oid said: the data. Second, every medication have a list of side effects, some lists are long as this thread and contain some really wacky things.

EVen Antibiotics have side effects. Also every medical item does. For example, the antiboitics my mum had to take last week gave her some mild stomach bleeding and confusion! Do I think it's anyhting to do with whatever conspirasy theory is going on? No. It's merely a side effect of having to take one poision to get rid of another. xD

Like Swerve said, I'm sure a lot of us wouldn't be here if it wasn't for our medical centers.

on the plus side- Reading how many people here have got the jab and are fine, I might talk to my doc next week about getting it too. I'd rather have a sore arm for a couple of days and be fine, than sick as a pig for a couple of weeks.

As for serious illness caused by the vaccine, can you link to any papers in peer reviewed academic journals showing serious illness caused by the vaccine? Or do you think the media and the anti-vaccine movement are more credible than scientific evidence?

+1,000,000,000,000

None of these are from academic journals but these assure you that evidence is there that some where hidden in the media these events are taken place. My wife's friend in Helsinki had her daughter vaccinated and 3 days later she came down with A/H1N1 and eventually came pneumonia. I have seen many articles about this issue as well.

I apologize that some of these links are directly from http://www.theflucase.com but I am in a hurry at the moment and cannot research back to the original site. I am sure you will take the time to do so though. I will only post the most recent but http://www.theflucase.com has many articles such as these.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... ories.aspx

http://theflucase.com/index.php?option= ... 64&lang=en

http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... l=de&tl=en

http://theflucase.com/index.php?option= ... 05&lang=en

http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... l=de&tl=en

http://theflucase.com/index.php?option= ... 64&lang=en

http://theflucase.com/index.php?option= ... 05&lang=en

http://theflucase.com/index.php?option= ... 05&lang=en

The anti-jab faction and indeed most conspiracists always seem to overlook that the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.

One thing I find amusing about all the vaccine hysteria is that when swine flu was still nascent, the exact same group of people were shouting that the governments were at fault for not having a vaccine and not stockpiling enough Tamiflu and so on.

This idea that the vaccine is untested is very misleading. Flu vaccines never get put through the same testing processes as other vaccines as they have to produced in response to that year's seasonal flu type. The basic safety procedures are the same year in year out though. Swine flu vaccine is no less tested than the normal flu jab. Thousands of people get the regular flu jab every year and don't make a big fuss about whether it is safe or not.

I find it astonishing that the media churn out these scare stories and sensationalise this stuff just to sell more papers when people might well be influenced not to take a vaccine that could potentially save their lives as a result.

There was a story a few weeks ago here about a schoolgirl who died "as a result" of having a cervical cancer vaccination. Big news. When it later transpired that she actually died of an entirely unrelated pre-existing condition did the papers print a retraction? No, of course not.

As for serious illness caused by the vaccine, can you link to any papers in peer reviewed academic journals showing serious illness caused by the vaccine? Or do you think the media and the anti-vaccine movement are more credible than scientific evidence?

+1,000,000,000,000

None of these are from academic journals but these assure you that evidence is there that some where hidden in the media these events are taken place. My wife's friend in Helsinki had her daughter vaccinated and 3 days later she came down with A/H1N1 and eventually came pneumonia. I have seen many articles about this issue as well.

I don't mean any disrepect here, but it takes 21 days (On average) for your body to process the vaccine, and create effective antibodies to defend against it. So, if she caught 3 days after, that could explain why she got quite sick, espeically if shes quite young as well. I hope she is okay though.

There was a story a few weeks ago here about a schoolgirl who died "as a result" of having a cervical cancer vaccination. Big news. When it later transpired that she actually died of an entirely unrelated pre-existing condition did the papers print a retraction? No, of course not.

This is the issue, a lot of people don't get that correlation does not imply causation. If someone dies after taking a vaccine, that alone does not suggest that the vaccine was related.
When you give lots of people the vaccine, the chances that a small number of them will die of some random illness after taking the vaccine is actually pretty high.

If the media had a motive to report on such deaths, then you'd see the same kind of news reports about people dying shortly after buying lottery tickets. That doesn't imply that buying lottery tickets is dangerous.

Look at it this way, if someone flips a coin 50 times, what are their chances of getting 50 heads in a row? Pretty slim (unless they cheat). If 1 million people simulataneously flip coins 50 times, then what are the chances that at least one of them (if not more) will manage to get 50 heads in a row? Pretty high. Improbable things happen often, because there are many opportunities for them to occur.

Media stories are not scientifically credible evidence.

Does anybody have a link to what is actually in the vaccine? What causes the central nervous system diseases to trigger?

Does anybody have a link to what is actually in the vaccine? What causes the central nervous system diseases to trigger?

You're assuming that it is actually causing central nervous system diseases to trigger in the first place.

If you're referring to the cheerleader that's claimed to have developed Dystonia, her disease was almost certainly psychogenic, and not Dystonia at all.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/ ... accine.php

Does anybody have a link to what is actually in the vaccine? What causes the central nervous system diseases to trigger?

You're assuming that it is actually causing central nervous system diseases to trigger in the first place.

I don't think that's a fringe issue. It's well known actually.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEN5KGwNGeo

But I suppose you can deny anything you want about any vaccine since the human body in real world conditions are all but impossible to replicate.

Does anybody have a link to what is actually in the vaccine? What causes the central nervous system diseases to trigger?

You're assuming that it is actually causing central nervous system diseases to trigger in the first place.

I don't think that's a fringe issue. It's well known actually.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEN5KGwNGeo

http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1152

Again, news stories mean shit. News stories have absolutely no scientific merit. Now, if you can find a paper from a peer-reviewed academic journal, that isn't discredited, and shows a proven link between the flu vaccine and central nervous system diseases, I'll be quite happy to review my opinion. Sensationalist stories in the media prove absolutely nothing. After all, if you listen to the media, then swine flu is the next 1918 Spanish Flu, or Bubonic Plague.

This woman almost certainly didn't have Dystonia, her disease was almost certainly psychogenic. That doesn't mean she was making it up, but the cause of her illness was psychological, not physical.
Even if her problem were physical, that wouldn't even remotely prove a link between the vaccine and neurological disorders.

Does anybody have a link to what is actually in the vaccine? What causes the central nervous system diseases to trigger?

You're assuming that it is actually causing central nervous system diseases to trigger in the first place.

I don't think that's a fringe issue. It's well known actually.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEN5KGwNGeo

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/ ... accine.php

Again, news stories mean shit. News stories have absolutely no scientific merit.
This woman almost certainly didn't have Dystonia, her disease was almost certainly psychogenic. That doesn't mean she was making it up, but the cause of her illness was psychological, not physical.

Even if her problem were physical, it wouldn't prove that the vaccine was the cause of the illness.

According to the news reports in that blog it's all in her head. That's fucked up.

According to the news reports in that blog it's all in her head. That's fucked up.

The human mind is a strange and amazing thing.

According to the news reports in that blog it's all in her head. That's fucked up.

The human mind is a strange and amazing thing.

Someone should send her that new news story and tell her that it's all in her head.

Does anybody have a link to what is actually in the vaccine? What causes the central nervous system diseases to trigger?

You do know that you'd had to know a great fucking deal about chemistry before that information would do you any good, don't you

Without modern medicine I'd be dead now, so they've earned my trust.

Modern medicine or pharmacuetical companies?

http://z.about.com/d/paranormal/1/0/f/L ... circle.jpg

I think it's funny what some people think is a 'conspiracy'. Interesting word to break down. Con Spira C Y