Do you know what my national paper wrote last week? Aftonbladet wrote: "Swineflue are soon running out, will you make it?"

Like it's a "live or die" moment, it's unbelievble how media works. They've lost my subscription.

also, i think theres a problem with society taking pill after pill and shot after shot. theres treatment for everything and i think the body needs to get better on its own terms. you think about any tablet and its basically keeping the immune system weak by protecting it or it just postpones an illness.

That's not how vaccinations work. They work by training your immune system to recognise a disease, so that it can fight it without you having to get infected and get ill with it.

im only a young one but were the generations before us as sick as we are today?

I dunno, in my Grandfather's day it was still pretty common to have hospitals set up specifically for people with tuberculosis, people still ended up horribly disabled after contracting polio. If you go back further than that, getting an infected wound could end up being a death sentence. I'd say we're doing OK.

Study finds most Americans would refuse emergency H1N1 vaccine or additive... I guess they're going to die, right ? But no... Let's trust the government and corporations. They are good, honest and decent people.

C'mon folks, let's be at least careful with that shit. I have nothing against people who will take it. What I hate is the fact that, it's also about endless fearmongering and money in health industry, again and again.

It's a scam, just like Al Gore's global warming agenda. They're pumping shit load of money from everyone. and they're finding a way, everytime.

[Keeker]

Study finds most Americans would refuse emergency H1N1 vaccine or additive... I guess they're going to die, right ? But no... Let's trust the government and corporations. They are good, honest and decent people.

C'mon folks, let's be at least careful with that shit. I have nothing against people who will take it. What I hate is the fact that, it's also about endless fearmongering and money in health industry, again and again.

It's a scam, just like Al Gore's global warming agenda. They're pumping shit load of money from everyone. and they're finding a way, everytime.

It's a flu, not that wildly different from other flu but there's always the risk of it turning into something more nasty and killing millions as another flu virus did not that many decades ago. The more people who catch it then the more chance it has to mutate into something unpleasant, hence the use of vaccines. I can't see a government actively seeking to poison it's entire population otherwise it would have no-one to govern. Also I have every faith that, at least in our case, government just isn't that well organised. I doubt ours could organise a piss-up in a brewery really let alone a huge conspiracy.

Dev's right, conspiracy theories are just another form of religion for those who don't belong to one of the traditional ones.

(Off topic slightly: The human brain is generally hard-wired to have a liking for belief, ritual and ceremony. It's an evolutionary hangover to aid conformity in a tribe and keep the members working for the common good and so boost that tribe's survival chances. Fine when it takes a benign form but not so handy when it is used by power-seeking individuals seeking social control to benefit themselves and not the common good. I don't think the use of flu vaccines fall into that category though.)

No one is claiming that 100% of people that refuse to take the vaccine will die. That would be a ridiculous claim to make. Not even the black death was able to infect/kill 100% of those that came in contact with it. Those that refuse to take the vaccine do have a higher probability of dying than those that don't, but they're not all going to die. Similarly, those that refuse to get vaccinated have a higher probability of suffering complications from being infected with flu, than they would to suffer an adverse reaction to a vaccine.

It's nothing to do with trusting the government. Like global warming deniers, the anti-vaccine movement have absolutely no scientific basis for their arguments, and have to fall back on conspiracy theories, misunderstanding and misreprentation of genuine evidence, and sometimes outright dishonesty.

No one is claiming that 100% of people that refuse to take the vaccine will die. That would be a ridiculous claim to make. Not even the black death was able to infect/kill 100% of those that came in contact with it. Those that refuse to take the vaccine do have a higher probability of dying than those that don't, but they're not all going to die. Similarly, those that refuse to get vaccinated have a higher probability of suffering complications from being infected with flu, than they would to suffer an adverse reaction to a vaccine.

It's nothing to do with trusting the government. Like global warming deniers, the anti-vaccine movement have absolutely no scientific basis for their arguments, and have to fall back on conspiracy theories, misunderstanding and misreprentation of genuine evidence, and sometimes outright dishonesty.

Wikipedia says the mortality rate is about 0.1% *. So if I get infected due to not having the vaccine, I still have a 99.9% probability to survive. i think those chances are alright. I'm not against the vaccination, but the fact is that I'm not even eligible to get the vaccine until sometime in January, when the whole thing is likely to be mostly over anyway.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic_H1N1/09_virus

Ok, there's some folk here (and everywhere) kinda talking shit, cause their view of vaccinations isn't completely correct and they don't understand it. I know some stuff, cause my mum is a nurse and has talked to a bunch of doctors about it. I took the vaccination, my hand was kinda sore for two days, but after that, I haven't noticed a thing.

I believe the vaccination is ok really, but maybe it's not 100% necessary if you're a healthy adult. The whole thing with both the swine flue AND the vaccination has been put out of proportions, I think. It's not such a big deal. Take the vaccination or not, you'll most likely turn out fine either way.

E: ^You're right, the mortality rate even if you get the disease is very, vey low. But think about it this way: With the vaccination you won't get sick at all unless it really is SUPER DANGEROUS. Cause if you're unlucky, with swine flu you'll have fever and stuff for many days. I'd rather not get sick at all! It's not about life and death for me, just rather not getting the thing at all, even if it would be just for a couple of days.

If the vaccines are so great, then why some people died after taking it or get serious illness caused from it ? Maybe because it was not properly tested and government allowed that to happen.

Look what's happening in Africa. People are getting tons of medications against all kind of viruses and they're dying by the thousands. Where is the fucking outrage in the mainstream media about that ? Depopulation is going on there, almost every single day.

Why we must trust them so much... we don't have a choice, right ? Just like we needed to send our boys to Iraq to find invisible weapons of mass destruction. How many died to discover that it was all about oil and money ?

It's not a religion for me... I just want bloody answers. Do I really ask for too much ? I guess so... Now go ahead and bash me for being paranoid, different and all kind of shit.

Ok, there's some folk here kinda talking shit.

... and who exactly is that person ?

If the vaccines are so great, then why some people died after taking it or get serious illness caused from it ? Maybe because it was not properly tested and government allowed that to happen.

Look what's happening in Africa. People are getting tons of medications against all kind of viruses and they're dying by the thousands. Where is the fucking outrage in the mainstream media about that ? Depopulation is going on there, almost every single day.

Because vaccines aren't magical wonder drugs that make you completely immune to dying from other causes? I'd have thought that would be common sense.

As for serious illness caused by the vaccine, can you link to any papers in peer reviewed academic journals showing serious illness caused by the vaccine? Or do you think the media and the anti-vaccine movement are more credible than scientific evidence?

As for serious illness caused by the vaccine, can you link to any papers in peer reviewed academic journals showing serious illness caused by the vaccine? Or do you think the media and the anti-vaccine movement are more credible than scientific evidence?

+1,000,000,000,000

By the way, does anyone here know Alex Jones or has watched his documentaries (Endgame, Obama Deception, Fall of the Republic and others...)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-CrNlilZho Endgame

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw Obama Deception

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU Fall of the Republic

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel

If the vaccines are so great, then why some people died after taking it or get serious illness caused from it ? Maybe because it was not properly tested and government allowed that to happen.

Look what's happening in Africa. People are getting tons of medications against all kind of viruses and they're dying by the thousands. Where is the fucking outrage in the mainstream media about that ? Depopulation is going on there, almost every single day.

Because vaccines aren't magical wonder drugs that make you completely immune to dying from other causes? I'd have thought that would be common sense.

As for serious illness caused by the vaccine, can you link to any papers in peer reviewed academic journals showing serious illness caused by the vaccine? Or do you think the media and the anti-vaccine movement are more credible than scientific evidence?

Well a lot of the concern came from the 1975-1976 swine flu vaccine debacle. There's a lot of mistrust after that. A lot of normal rational people, doctors included, are wary of this new vaccine which hasn't been fully tested.

It's easy to look up for yourself but the short story is the government and media made a big fuss about the swine flu and only one person actually died from it. On the other hand 25 people died from getting the shot and many more got sick from it.

A quick google search found this but you can easily find more on the subject.
http://healthandsurvival.com/2009/04/26 ... than-good/

I can certainly see the point in compulsory vaccinations. If large enough numbers of people go unvaccinated then it compromises herd immunity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Fuck, you beat me to it.

If the vaccines are so great, then why some people died after taking it or get serious illness caused from it ? Maybe because it was not properly tested and government allowed that to happen.

First of all, like Oid said: the data. Second, every medication have a list of side effects, some lists are long as this thread and contain some really wacky things.

Look what's happening in Africa. People are getting tons of medications against all kind of viruses and they're dying by the thousands. Where is the fucking outrage in the mainstream media about that ? Depopulation is going on there, almost every single day.

Low average lifespan in some African country came from _lack_ of medical care, as far as I know. Though, sure, there are cnuts peddling toxic shit to the people in need.